Brett Eberhardt

Susan Classen-Sullivan
To record to this computer, all right, and here we go. Alright, so I have about 11 questions. And let’s start with the first one. And it is how, if at all has the pandemic affected your work, or your ability to work or your work as a whole? Anyway, you want to address that,

Brett Eberhardt
Um, it actually hasn’t changed much. You know, I mean, my, the way I work before the pandemic, is I go rent a studio here in Providence, separate from where I live, and I go there to do that activity. It’s a solo activity. You know, usually I’m there by myself unless my wife is in there working. And, you know, with, with the pandemic, and isolating, it’s just not that much different from my daily practice when I’m making work.

Mm hmm.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
So it hasn’t, like, psychologically impacted or distracted you or you’re able to just keep at it.

Brett Eberhardt
I think, sure. It’s distracted me. I mean, who who’s not distracted with what’s going on out there? But like, I’m, I’m working on paintings that well, let’s, let’s see, I maybe started one after, you know, mid-March after the pandemic, but otherwise, I was working on them already. And it’s kind of like, rather than feel the need to switch gears and do something, either in response or relation to the pandemic. I don’t kind of I don’t do that kind of work anyway. I mean, it’s all. So not much has changed. I mean, other than the codes of the building, having to wear a mask, you know, in the hallway.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
So you think that – let me ask you a question that you can’t know the answer to. But I’m just thinking about, you know, because I’ve talked with other people. And it really ranges like their response to that question, not just the faculty at MCC, you know, people are in different places with it. So do you think that your, your paintings would look the same as they would have if you had not had – if the pandemic wasn’t going on? And you were just continuing your practice as you do?

Brett Eberhardt
That’s a, that’s a tough one. Because I…

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Hard to know.

Brett Eberhardt
Well, it’s hard to know, yeah.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
It brings up the question of what’s embedded in the work?

Brett Eberhardt
Yes.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Right.

Brett Eberhardt
Yes. Yeah.

You know, it affects your state of mind.

In the spring, I had, I had more time in the studio too because, you know, we were all isolating. I was teaching online, I can do that.

You know, anytime.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Shortens the commute. Right?

Brett Eberhardt
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, minus the commute. So I had more time, but also, like you said, um, it’s hard to tell how it would show up in the work if it showed up in the work? I don’t know if I’d be able to tell at this point. Maybe a few years down the road?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So, do you have certain requirements for making your work? Like physical requirements in terms of space? Do you need to be in a certain state of mind to do your work? Are there parameters like to get in there and get it done?

Brett Eberhardt
It’s great if I if I am in the right state of mind. But if I’m not in the right state of mind, I always think about it. Like, you know, I’m not going to sit around and wait to be in the right state of mind. Who knows when that’s gonna be?

I want to take advantage of the time in the studio and I I tell myself to push through it if you know if you’re like, get in the right state of mind, if you’re not in the right state of mind, right?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yep.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, who was I think, Chuck Close said, you know, “Waiting for inspiration is for amateurs.”

Like maybe that’s not exactly what he said. But, uh, yeah, I, I tried to push through whether I’m in the mood or not, and then I’ve had mixed results, maybe, you know, you go in and it’s a little rough and you’re not focused the right way and you’re trying to force it.

And then at the end of the day, you realize you kind of have wasted a day, or even did work. You’re gonna have to undo and redo.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
But I still think that doing that work can lead you to a place that you wouldn’t have gotten to if you hadn’t done the work. You know what I mean?

Brett Eberhardt
And I’ve also had it the other way.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
You’re breaking up just a little bit.

There you are, you’re back.

Brett Eberhardt
I’m back?

Yeah, because my connection is unstable. I’ve got internet.

Yeah. But I’ve had the opposite happen to where I go in not exactly, maybe in the right mindset. But by the end of the day, it’s like, couldn’t have asked for anything better. It’s just like, it’s almost magic, stuff is falling into place. And you’re like, “Wow, this is great.” And so I’ve had it go both ways, actually.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah. It’s like I tell students, you must have students who say, “I just don’t know what to make. I don’t know what to do. I’m having a hard time on board. I can’t motivate, I can’t.” And my answer is always the same. It’s do the work. Well, yeah. Even if the work sucks, sort of do the work.

Brett Eberhardt
Right. And there’s, there’s another artist that you know, it was a, it was from a documentary, and I remember him saying, “A lot of art making is ditch digging.”

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah.

Boring.

Brett Eberhardt
And I completely understand, I totally understand what he what he meant by that is so true. It’s just doing the work.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah. And sometimes the work is like, artmaking is really stupid. Like, it’s really stupid, like, okay, I am going to spend 40 hours on this little, little area of this sculpture. You know, I’m just gonna put 40 or 100? Or how many, I mean, that’s sort of stupid.

Brett Eberhardt
Absolutely, I have, I have a friend who has a very practical job. And he’s a good friend. So we have long conversations, not just about I mean, art, but life in general. And, you know, he’s not an artist.

You know, although whatever he does do, he tries to have an artistic, you know, sort of side to it.

But he’s very curious about what I do, because it just seems like, you know, how am I able to do that. And at this, you know, where his life is. So I get dominated by nine to five, Monday through Friday and doing something that I guess, is, can be labeled as practical, whereas I’m in the studio, doing things that…

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Nobody’s telling you what to do.

Brett Eberhardt
Nobody’s telling me what to do.

And maybe, you know, there’s a very, very, very limited audience for what it is that I’m doing.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
I don’t think so. But, yeah, the freedom to do the work is such a gift, I think.

Brett Eberhardt
I mean, one of the things I’ve tried to explain to him, as you know, because he is curious about why I do is is, you know, imagine if you’re given the space and resources and time to play and do what you want. You know, it’s not exactly true, because it’s kind of it’s hard work. And it’s not play, but there’s that component to it. A lot of the times I think about them, like just how crazy it is the thing that I’m doing and devoting all this time in the studio. I mean, one of the images I sent you his opinion, that’s like I’m two years in on it. Yeah. Two years. I’m two years in, it’s not consecutive, everyday two years, but it’s two years, you know,

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Is it this one? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. I don’t think the last time I saw it, there was the bathroom. The toilet that’s blowing my mind. Yeah.

Brett Eberhardt
I don’t I don’t remember showing you a previous version of it. But, um, I think

Susan Classen-Sullivan
you did, like, it did.

It was it wasn’t all this. It’s so very much like on in the space.

Brett Eberhardt
I mean, that’s what I want it to be.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah, very much. That’s crazy. Lloyd. We’ll come back to that. We’ll come back to that. But, um, um, I just wanted to say that you said, play like, you know, what, if you had this space, and you could go in and do it, everyone play all day. And that sounds like art making is like this light. Just love whatever you want in this space. And yeah, Peter, wait, do you know him? He’s a local, he’s a Connecticut painter.

Brett Eberhardt
He’s not familiar, but I don’t like maybe I’ve heard the name before.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
I think you would like his work. But anyway, he gave a gallery talk and he said art making this like play. And when he said that, I thought you know, you’re super serious artists. This is but when I thought about it, like if you think back to being a kid, and playing like whatever it was, you were playing, it meant everything right. Like you were totally invested in that marble game or dressing that Barbie or whatever it is that you’re playing? I think it’s the same. I think play is a good analogy. Actually.

I think you’re frozen again. Breath.

There you are. Yeah, it is it is.

Brett Eberhardt
Am I back?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
You’re back.

Brett Eberhardt
I don’t know. Usually we have a good internet here. I’m at home. So I don’t know what the problem is, but um.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
It could be for mine. And I don’t know. I’m on a laptop sometimes.

Brett Eberhardt
But, you know, another thing that that’s about play is that, um, that’s similar to art making is it is kind of it just, there’s an absurdity sometimes when I’m in the studio, and I can become fully aware of what actually is that I’m doing. You know, we’ve already touched on it like devoting all this time and in for me might specifically for me into a surface, like just constantly reworking a surface.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
For years is a long time.

Brett Eberhardt
For years. Yeah.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
It’s wonderful. The commitment. It’s really, that’s really wonderful.

Brett Eberhardt
I’m glad to hear you say that. Sometimes I wonder about my own like, sanity. And my, the same friend that I told you about. I talked to him the other day about this very painting and, and he asked me, “Do you think you could have built a small house within that time?” And I, and yes, I most definitely could. And it kind of put it in perspective for me.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
But look at the painting.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, no, it’s true. And I Yeah, it is. But at the same time, I think, like, I’m always wondering about Am I doing the most with my time? Am I making the most use of my time? Am I getting no results, that sort of make me feel better about my decisions.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
I think that it’s dangerous to think about time in relation to your work, because it’s so relative. I mean, in terms of some artists, it could take, you know, five minutes.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, I know, I think about that a lot, because I, um, I’ve had to come to terms with it. Because the it’s constant, it’s on my, it’s on my mind. Because, you know, the more, the longer, you know, the more I do this, the more I realize that the paintings are going to take longer.

To get the type of painting I want, to get the surface that I want. To have the painting’s surface itself be a rich history. Yeah, like it’s gonna take, it’s gonna take time. So I’ve had, I’ve had to tell myself, it’s gonna take as long as it’s going to take and I have to, I have to be okay with that, even though, you know, I have a gallery and they want paintings from me. And they’ve been real patient with me spending a lot of times on the, on the big paintings, even though it’s not necessarily something that they’ll be able to sell, or maybe even would have an interest in selling. But they do really, really want some more moderately sized paintings from me, and would you know, like to have a course a show. And it’s just, it’s really more and more increasingly, so it’s harder and harder to have that kind of body of work to show. Because each of the paintings it’s taking longer to make.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah. And to make paintings to sell is different than making paintings that you need to make, I think, yeah, sometimes not all the time, not for everyone, but very often.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, so I don’t compromise in that way. And it’ll result in whatever it results in. Luckily, luckily, the gallery is really supportive.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
And that full of your process,

Brett Eberhardt
Yes. And get, you know, they’ll give me the time. At least they have so far.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Um, I also, as you’re saying that I’m thinking, you know, sometimes these things like flipped on a dime, like a year from now, you may be moving into a different body of work that requires different things from you. Sometimes it’s hard to know what you’re gonna do five years from now, or 10 years from now.

Brett Eberhardt
Right. Right. And we’re still in that first question, right, I think?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
No, no, we’re moving a little bit.

Brett Eberhardt
Oh, we are? Because I forgot to mention that, like, where I am the space, which is part of that first question, is incredibly important. I mean, my, my subjects, the things I make paint of, paintings of are there in my immediate surrounding. I mean, it’s rare that I like go outside of it to search for something.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah, let’s let’s, let’s mention that for people who aren’t familiar with your work or how you go about it that this is a painting of your studio space. Correct?

Brett Eberhardt
Yes.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah. So no still life. No human being sitting, posing, it’s looking at an area of your actual studio and representing it in paint.

Brett Eberhardt
Yes, mostly, but mostly it’s the floor, but the wall in the bathroom there, they’re like the, the east side of the studio.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Why do you do that?

Brett Eberhardt
Well, when I, when I initially rented this studio space, I, I chose it because I, I was looking, I was interested in making larger paintings of an interior space. So I kind of, you know, audition a number of spaces, that were potential, like possibilities to rent. And this one stuck in my brain, you know. And the reason why is because, you know, it’s like a lot of artists studios, there’s all sorts of residue from previous people that have been in there. And this, this one had signed painters and before before me, and so they had, you know, tested things on the walls and the floors were, you know, covered. You can kind of like, trace their activity on both the walls and the floor. And I just, you know, um…

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah, I said human beings weren’t part of your work, and yet they are.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, they are. Yeah, very, very much. So. And so I rented this space, specifically to do a series of large interior paintings. And initially, it wasn’t my studio even. I moved in with just one big painting, one big canvas. And, you know, it was kind of like, it’s kind of, I think it was like going to go, I felt like it has gone to church or something, because the whole thing was empty, except for the space itself, and the floors and the walls and two tables that were had been left in there. And I felt like I was going going in to, you know, learn from the subject, slowly, as I built this, this painting. This is this one that we’re looking at as the second one, the large paintings, I think, I’m thinking three total, and I haven’t started the third one yet. But specifically, like, when I looked at this is this, this painting in the middle, there’s this, like, sort of, there’s a shape right in the middle on the floor, it’s kind of a diamond shape, that is head some, it said something down, and that painted, kind of used out and left this, like melki residue on the floor, and I just kind of just, like, I want to, I got to paint that I got to paint that, you know, and then the rest, you know, what, I think when I see something like that, that has these opportunities and paint that I want to go after, and has this certain um…

Susan Classen-Sullivan
So when you saw that place where someone they had put something down, and it had oozed out, you know, and, and, and, and, and kind of uncontrolled event took place, a little bit messy. And was it the, was it the human component of that event that drew you, or?

Brett Eberhardt
It’s both the human component like imagining this, this happening, and there’s like a familiarity with it too, because I’ve just been in, had a lot of odd jobs and just know what what takes place when you’re kind of in a rush and you’re working with materials.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
But is it metaphoric?

Brett Eberhardt
Um, is it metaphoric?

I’m not exactly sure. I mean, I’m thinking more of a specific metaphor, but it’s, it is like, I love looking at things like that, that, you know, it’s not the, it’s not the intended outcome. Somebody was doing something with purpose and with no specific thing in mind and this is like the leftover of that activity. That was never meant to be elevated or seen or paid attention to.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
And yet it’s so hard to (audio cuts out)

Brett Eberhardt
What’s that? It that broke up there a little bit.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
I said and yet it’s so expressive of the activity even though it wasn’t intended, you know, intended to be part of the finished.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, I mean, I think about that floor is just like, you know, pockets of it, areas of it, have specific marks and specific, a specific look. I mean, I’ve been looking at it for so long, it’s like, how does, how did that happen? How did that end up there? And over here, this is here.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
It was really lovely the way you were when you were talking about entering this space and how he said it was sort of like going to church or there was something sacred is a big word, but there was something larger than you in the space and kind of the way you put your subject above you, or a little bit maybe beyond you rather than the work being about you. It was about Yeah, or it’s about a discovery of something that you don’t know.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah.

I mean, I wasn’t sure what to expect, I’d never worked in that scale before. And I was so excited to do it. Even even something like just building the structure. And, you know, when I, when I first started going to the space to make the painting, it was a spiritual kind of thing. Part of it because the whole space was empty, and it’s just me and my painting and the rest of the space. But at the time, I wasn’t, I was, I was on sabbatical. So I, I, all I was doing every day was painting for, you know, at least eight hours. And I hadn’t really had the opportunity to experience that kind of intensity before was when it was it was like, and I remember, I remember the difficulty of doing what I wanted to do like having it work the way I want it to work observing it close enough and getting it right and redoing and redoing it anyway, you know.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
So that brings me to a question one of these questions, because you’re talking about it now. So let me ask it specifically, when you’re creating your work, is there a certain a certain criteria that you use to, to assess it in process? Like, how do you judge what you will accept and won’t accept?

Brett Eberhardt
Well, I’m, I’m really concerned about how the image is constructed with with this medium with oil paint. And, and I won’t stop until I think not only have I captured the likeness of the thing, that I’m the subject of the thing that I’m painting, but the way it’s constructed, you know, that I’m satisfied with that. I’m satisfied with the application of the paint. And more and more so as I become bigger and bigger critic of myself and how it’s constructed, there needs to be some surprise there. There needs to be it can’t just be going. This is these are the things I tell myself is it can’t be going straight forward for just after the likeness. You know, it’s trying to build a history there, that’s as compelling as the history that caught my attention in the first place of the subject.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
So it may look different than it actually does standing in the space the painting. Um,

Brett Eberhardt
I really, I mean, I go after the smallest things, Susan, like, I go after dots. I mean, you know, and I, and I don’t…

Susan Classen-Sullivan
It’s not a place so it’s a different experience for the viewer.

Brett Eberhardt
No, that’s true. Um, but I’m like, what one thing I would say about the practice of me painting is like it’s it’s empirical, like I keep after the shapes until they all fit together. Like I’m observing and until that Until that happens, I keep going, I keep measuring, and I keep comparing things other than one next to another and changing and, you know, I just am so persistent until I, until it all fits together. I double-check, recheck.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
It, it says much about seeing what’s wrong as it is seeing what’s right as you move along?

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. You know, that’s the thing is, I mean, when you talk about what can I live with, like, I can’t live with, you know, what I tell my students a lot is like, it’s this is painting one specific, right, they’re learning how to see and they’re having to work from direct observation, we start off with a two dimensional thing, and then work our way into 3d. And what I tell them is, if you’re working on a painting, and you and you can see that you’re, you know, that you’re the bottle or whatever it is that they’re painting, that its proportions are wrong, that you’re getting sharper, and you should, you should be proactive, and you should change make the change, even though that change may create other issues in the paintings where you have to tackle multiple things. Again, you should fix it, because that’s you getting stronger, your visions getting more accurate, and you’re learning to see better. That’s in terms of relationships, relationships. And, again, that’s it’s a specific type of painting, like from observation, which of course I’m really steeped in. And so if I can see something’s wrong in my painting, right, I cannot let it be, I cannot let it go. I have to fix it, even if it means an avalanche of a mess that I’ve got to figure out because I like seeing my paintings when they are done. And feeling a sense of accomplishment. Not, not looking at the painting and thinking, “Oh, there it is, like, haunting me. It’s haunting me. It’s coming.” You know, it’s like, oh, maybe nobody else sees it. But I know, I know it’s there. And it’s, it’s like a terrible, terrible feeling. I hate when that happens, you know.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Worse than having to redo something, or what you’re calling an avalance of things. It sounds like, I mean, I think I’ve been there in my own practice from time to time. And it can be like exhausting and sort of just, it can crush you for just a little while. But as you say, not as much as accepting it.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, it does. And sometimes it’s so overwhelming that you have to walk away for while.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Shut the door.

Brett Eberhardt
Yes.

But you know, like a week later, two weeks later, I’m back at it. And like you said, even like the failures all add up in the end.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Failures are wonderful. They’re doorways. I mean, they’re brutal, of course, but they’re also doorways to other places. So are there things that you do outside of your art making practice that support your work?

Brett Eberhardt
I try to, um, I try to read as much as I can.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
What kind of reading?

Brett Eberhardt
I read art, I mean, some art criticism, um, but only the accessible kind. Not the, not the cryptic circular stuff, you know, like critical theory or anything like that. I just, I like to hear specific, you know, writers and I try to expand that as much as I can, but, and how I like to hear them talk about art. And you know, like to hear other people talk about art that I’m familiar with, but you know, maybe articulate in a way that you may be I’ve sensed or felt from looking at a piece that maybe I never articulated but have this feeling about and then yeah, couldn’t get to the bottom of it. And then they they helped me if it’s not a specific piece, just in general like it’s great to to read somebody else’s thoughts about work.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Okay, um, what are the greatest challenges you face as an artist?

Brett Eberhardt
Um, there’s so many I mean, I would say doubt, but we all struggle with doubt.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Oh, that’s good. That’s a good thing to mention. Doubt. What do you mean? What kind of doubt doubt about what?

Brett Eberhardt
Um, doubt about you know, whether…

I’ve had some pretty, like, you know, over the years.

Some I wouldn’t say (Brett freezes)

…much where I’ve just like, kind of often, like things we’ve already touched on that this is, like sort of a ridiculous activity for a grown man. You know, like that like that, you know, it just seems like all this resources, all of this precious time, you only have so much time. And here I am toiling toiling away on this big paint this big ambitious painting that,

you know,

I have a lot of times I’ve had questions whether I have, I have it in me to finish it. And that’s just not that’s just not an equation of time that’s in it. And that’s in consideration of finishing it the way I want it to be finished the way I want and the way I I think it should be visually, and what I’m after visually, it can be, like, crippling, you know, and yet, I’m pretty persistent. I can work I can work through it. And you know, just like there’s there’s constant revaluations of things like, should I should I be…

I don’t, you know, I sometimes I think I’m not trying enough or hard enough. In terms of methodologies or experimenting or just constantly messing with this material. And in getting to a place that helps the work evolve.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
If you had to break down percentage wise, the, like, when you’re making work, what percentage of the experience or the time is you’re in a place of uncertainty? And what is the percentage where you just know just what you’re doing? And you got it?

Brett Eberhardt
Maybe the uncertainty is like 30 percent. Because when I’m actually painting, it’s, I’m pretty focused, you know, I can look up an hour, three hours later, four hours later, and just be, can’t believe it’s four hours have gone by, you know? You get sucked into this whole…

Susan Classen-Sullivan
And when you come out, when you come up like that, and you you know, okay, it’s four hours later, and you’ve sort of backed off a little from the work. Is it always like, “Oh, that looks good”. Or is it, “Oh, my god, there’s four hours in this is not correct.”

Brett Eberhardt
Well, there’s both. And boy, is it great when looks good.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah.

Brett Eberhardt
Like you said, even even when it’s not good, that’s, it’s gonna help the surface and the build up. And when you finally arrive, it’s under there, part of it. And a lot of times, it’s better for it. For those missteps earlier. You know, it’s um.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
That’s interesting, that’s cool.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, you can’t play on that kind of stuff.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
It’s like you’re almost doing, like your process is almost doing what the painting is showing?

Brett Eberhardt
Yes. And I think about that, and it’s always, like, made me feel pretty solid about the subject.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah.

Brett Eberhardt
You know? Yeah, that’s it is that link is that link, like I’m building a surface with paint, and the history of building that surface is very similar to the very thing that I’m painting.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
That’s pretty wild.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Wow.

So those are some of the challenges. I mean, I know they’re like exhibiting and there’s eating and shelter, and, you know, all the other things. But, um,

Brett Eberhardt
you know, another challenge is, I mean, it’s not really a challenge, because I really don’t think about this that much. But, you know, I rent a studio and that’s a monthly commitment. I mean, it’s not nothing and it’s, I wouldn’t say it’s expensive, but it’s it’s a chunk of money every month. And you know, um, you can just you kind of, I mean, I don’t think about it much because there’s there really isn’t another option. I need this space. Yeah, that’s why well, myself, I need the space and Luke layer and that’s it, you know.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
No doubt about it.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
No doubt about it. But okay, so how about, um, um, rewards?

Brett Eberhardt
Rewards of being an artist or rewards from the work?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Are those two different,

Brett Eberhardt
Not really.

They’re very much together, I guess (Brett freezes)

Susan Classen-Sullivan
You’re frozen a little bit.

Oh, there you are, you’re back.

Brett Eberhardt
Oh, can you hear me now?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
I can.

Brett Eberhardt
I said you can’t be an artist without the work. I guess you could pose as an artist right?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Wear a baret.

Brett Eberhardt
Yes.

I would say there’s, there’s like the rewards of it, it’s really, it’s really hard to, to put into a sentence or two. I mean, it’s a lifestyle. It’s, and that lifestyle is incredibly rich, it’s rich in so many ways. And it’s, I mean, I do a pretty great thing, not just making these paintings, you know, in my mind, I think it’s a great thing, it’s a privileged thing to do, right, that you have to work very hard, in order to be able to, I don’t know, be granted permission to do it. Of course, you could make work whether or not you have permission, not but what I mean is that, you know, I’m a professor, so I teach painting, I teach the thing that I’m preoccupied with, and that is, you know, become this huge, huge part of my life that I’ve invested a lot into, and I get to teach that and share that with, you know, students. And it’s because, you know, painting is the reason that I’ve had all not all of the experiences I’ve had better than the ones that have meant the most come from pursuing painting. You know, there’s the education itself, undergrad, graduate school, all the people that you meet there and teachers and your peers, other students, relationships you take from those specific situations. And then going out in the world, the same kind of thing, you know, you go to openings and shows networking, and it’s all it’s all centered around this deciding to do this activity, you know, just decided your decision to, to pursue this leads to all these doors, and all this, all these relationships, and in some ways ends up deciding where you’re going to live. I mean, that’s such a huge, huge thing, you know. So, you know, in a way I owe everything to this practice. The lifestyle that I live is like, I don’t think I would trade it for anything. It’s worth so much more than money. You know, it’s, I get to teach the thing that I’m passionate about, and I have a studio I mean, sometimes I walk in the studio, I can’t believe I have this as a place for me to do this. It just seems like I remember those younger days where it all seems so impossible or that you just don’t have the resources and so you do you get by with however you can get by me whenever you’ve got a bedroom or whatever it is you paint in the living room. So it’s pretty rewarding thing to be involved in no matter how much doubters you know, caught up into it are you know what kind of questions that come about. It’s like a very special thing to be a part of.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Let’s look at this painting. Can you see it? Did I do that right?

There we are.

Brett Eberhardt
So it’s called “Patched”.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
What?

Brett Eberhardt
Patched.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Patched?

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
So this is a cupboard, this is a cupboard. Where is this cupboard from?

Brett Eberhardt
No, it’s it’s not a cupboard actually, it is, this like, the top part there is a molding that is going around the outside of the bathroom in studio.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Oh, so it’s in the wall?

Brett Eberhardt
It’s like, you know, the, the bathroom that they built, they just they they built it out in order to have a bathroom in the room. So it’s like this little, you know, closet that comes out into the room rather than being in the wall. In this, this molding goes around the top of it. It doesn’t go all the way up to the ceiling either. So this molding goes around the top of it and it’s actually this this particular spot is in one of the larger paintings. To which account you know, I like that quite a bit because you know, this the detail of that specific area.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
You know, I just made this link that probably… (Brett freezes)

You’re frozen.

Maybe doesn’t mean anything. Can you hear me?

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Um, so in your big painting, you have this, you know, you can sort of see into the bathroom. There’s a, there’s a space that is somewhat revealed to us, but also a little secret. And here we have these drawers which are you know, like, they’re also secret.

Like, we don’t see what’s in there. So there’s

Brett Eberhardt
in here on this small painting this patch painting. Yeah, it basically is like, think about a crown molding?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah,

Brett Eberhardt
it’s basically like a it’s not crown molding, but it plays the same, a similar role. So it’s just like wood molding that goes around the top. And in this particular point is somebody’s Cut, cut out kind of roughly this square section towards the top.

And then they patched it.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Alright, you’re talking about this one?

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, this one?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Okay, not this one.

Is there a green? What are you seeing on your screen?

I’m still seeing Patched.

Oh, oh, then I, then I. Okay. Let me go back because I was seeing the green cupboard.

Brett Eberhardt
Okay, sorry.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
No, that’s okay. But let’s look at this. All right. So yes, now it makes sense, what, what you were saying.

So they, you know, they cut this out and maybe had like, a two by two in there. Or something like that? For what reason, I don’t know. And then they took it out. And they they patched it.

But it looks like an abstract painting too.

Brett Eberhardt
It does, yeah.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
All right. But let’s, I want to, I want to do I want to share this one. This is what I was saying, like the bathroom, I can’t see all the way into in your big painting. These are drawers, I can’t see in there. So there are things in your work that remain unrevealed, I think.

Brett Eberhardt
Hmm.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
And sort of it’s true that we see like the, the product of people’s activities.

But we don’t see the people. So there’s, there’s things that are very…

Brett Eberhardt
You’re making – I always I always knew that the people were present, that that record is there. Symbolically, right? This is all from other people.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah.

Brett Eberhardt
Um, either handling, dealing with materials or spaces. That’s the thing that I get sucked into and drawn into. I’ve asked myself a lot about why that is. And I think I just I, and it’s very specific things again, it’s like, you know, rules about making work and always has seems for me I’m not looking for printing things to paint. I’m looking for things that actually are discards, they’re not completely imperfect, they’re not things that people necessarily look at.

To get that reward of something pretty, you know, it has to be something that’s…doesn’t get any kind of…that, any kind of that kind of attention.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Not something to cherish in the traditional way.

Brett Eberhardt
Exactly. The more, the more um…

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Battered around it is, the more you like it?

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, the more, and also not just, not just like a roughed up thing, but the more…unremarkable it, is the better.

You know, the more banal it is, the better.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Well you show, your paintings show the rich quality of those objects, how they embody all the interactions that have taken place with them.

Brett, what, what, do you have any advice I’m going to stop sharing here. Do you have any advice you want to give student, young young artist students?

Brett Eberhardt
Hmm.

I mean, I’m always, I’m always thinking about,

you know, in teaching (Brett freezes)

…a line of fire. Oh, am I back.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Now you’re back.

Brett Eberhardt
Can you hear me now?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
I can.

Brett Eberhardt
So you know, in teaching my classes, I’m always thinking about what I can do to kind of light a fire in the students, like, what could I say or do to help them. And I also try to put myself back at that, you know, age of, let’s say, like somebody coming in straight out of high school, and trying to remember what I was like, in my headspace at that time when I was that age, and what would have made a difference to me if somebody had, you know, given me some, like, great words of wisdom. And I, you know, I think I’m, it’s hard to pinpoint, even though after all these years, I keep I keep thinking, What can I tell them?

I mean, of course, it’s like,

the first thing is just get started, just get in there. And and then the second part would be that, you know, you have to care about it. If you’re not, if you’re not, if you don’t care about some visible, it’s like,

you don’t care about it, and then why are we supposed to care about it? You know, it’s like, you have to, you have to, and I also think, I think this like when you’re making work, it really is, a lot of it is like being interested in yourself, you know, in, in, how you think about things, how you make things, what you think about when you’re making things. And sometimes, sometimes I think that that’s not happening, and I need to, like, implanted in them that it’s the rewards are so rich, if you just like, get in the trenches, and start to get analytical about what it is you’re doing, why you’re doing it, and thinking about materials and thinking about visuals and thinking in your bringing that whole that whole package together in a very, very attentive way. And if you do it, it just the rewards. I mean, you reap the rewards from that. Great, you know, when you when you send great work out into the world, people notice and you get all sorts of not just recognition, but doors open. Opportunities get presented. And one of the things I found that makes me feel really good is that I’ve had certain doors open and it’s been because of the work I don’t I didn’t know anybody. I sent it out in the world. And then this thing happened, this great thing happened, you know, so yeah.

But in order for that great thing to happen, you have to be committed. And it isn’t just a time commitment. It’s a, it’s more of an awareness, commitment, and like thinking about just becoming sharper and really, really caring about your work, and what’s happening with it and what you’re learning from it and how, um…

Maybe that’s, maybe that’s the end of a…yeah.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
It’s great advice. Great advice. Your students are lucky to have you.

Brett Eberhardt
Oh, thanks. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
And thanks for your time. We’re gonna put this live, everyone, with the faculty show and you’ll be able to see more of Brett’s work, it’ll be right with your images, um, online, so…

Brett Eberhardt
Great. So this whole, this whole talk we just had will be there?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah.

Brett Eberhardt
Really?

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah.

Brett Eberhardt
All right.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Yeah. All right. Stay safe, Brett, and thank you.

Brett Eberhardt
Yeah, thank you.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
I’ll see you soon.

Brett Eberhardt
All right. Yes, we will. All right. Bye.

Susan Classen-Sullivan
Bye.